So I was at the Bass-n-Tubes delta open the other day chatting it up with swampy dave, IFISH, fishcat, Mitch and the gang. A very important topic of conversation came up as we were shooting the breeze. Dave brought it up I think because he had a reel spooled up with Cajun Red line. If you're familiar with Cajun line their marketing informs the angler that red is the first color to disappear underwater and because of that, Cajun red line starts to 'disappear' to the fish in as little as 3 feet of water. This sounds good no? We all want invisible line.

So the next point brought up was one of my favorites, the red hook. The bloody lures are still multiplying out there and it seems like half of what you see now has a red hook in it. Everywhere I am reading how I need to use red hooks because they look like blood!

But wait, I'm confused... According to the folks at Cajun line, red can 'disappear' in as little as 3 feet of water. So if you are using red hooks and fishing deep, is your hook becoming invisible? Invisible hooks sound great to me but I thought the whole point of using a red hook was the blood, you know... like the fish sees the lure and mistakes the hook for... blood. Yeah that makes sense because so many things underwater are always bleeding all the damn time because fish blood only coagulates underwater almost immediately and ... oh hell my brain hurts.

So a few questions that come up in this critical discussion...

If red 'disappears' underwater, does fish blood disappear underwater also?

Can fish see their own blood?

Is a red snapper invisible?

How come bass didn't adapt to turn red so that they could be invisible?

How come no freshwater game fish are red?

If I wear a red wetsuit, can I hide from sharks?

Your input is welcome :) This is important!

I have read your take on the red hook thing before, you bring up some great points. Its funny how so many swear by adding a red hook to thier lures. Example: Replacing the center or front hook on certain jerk baits, Said by KVD.
So if red disapears, then how does one explain the red flake in plastics? I know it works, on particular fisheries. The Beaver "420", Robo worm: ArronsMagic or Ox blood with red flake. Senko Watermelon red flake. These can be very affective. If red disapeared then way the red flake?

Good topic Rob.

Bryan

To fish is to live!

That is funny Rob, "Is a red snapper invisible?". Maybe the Cajun line disapears because mono is somewhat transparent in nature and with the line being red it is more invisible than the more common colors of mono. Maybe it's just a gimmic to sell more line?? I have no idea but you do bring up some valid questions....

Why haven't shad and other bait fish adapted and become red.

What does a trout with a nice red gill plate and a red stripe look like to a bass?

Bass must find and eat most crawdads by vibrations because they could surely never see the red ones...

Jake J

http://calfishing.com/gallery/v/members/jakej/

I don't get to much into the red hook issue but I do use them on my topwaters. It does make small difference for them. But for drop shotting or other things I don't believe it makes much difference. Pro fisherman Rich Tauber once told us at one of my club meetings about the red hook craze. What he told us was that the color red, starts to turn brown the deeper you go into the water coloumn. This being a study down by one of his sponsors Diachi Hooks. So for surface down to maybe 10ft it might benefit you. But to each his own and what ever gives you confidence.

I love this red stuff too..lets clarify..disappear..The color "Red" is no longer visible as red after a few feet in the water..it actually changes (or appears too change) too gray,then with more depth,it appears black.I've never understood cajuns statements of disappearing line..Or understood putting red hooks on deep diving crakbaits or jigs..after a few feet they appear black anyway.
The thought (or so they say)putting red hooks on top waters and shallow running cranks is too mimic gill flash.I have never seen when red hooks used under the proper circumstances (shallow)can hurt your catch ratio,and AT TIMES,can help.
There is a excellent book that came out a few years ago called "What Fish See"it was written by a eye doctor(can't remember his name)but it discusses color visibility.This guy is a big steelhead fisherman,and his research is outstanding.The mepps Co. hired him ..Nathan
www.Bettencourtbaits.com

I really have no idea what the red hook is supposed to mimic, but changing out front hooks for red ones on jerkbaits, topwater, and cranks has helped me in some way. I really don't feel like I get more bites because of the red hook, but I do think that it gives the fish something to key in on when they're going after the bait. If the fish sees a bait and doesn't want it, I don't think the red hook is going to make a difference at all. I just get a better fish in the boat to fish that bit my bait ratio with the red front treble. You also have to remember that I spend most of my time on super clear lakes. Red fades to grey even faster in dirty water so this stuff might not apply for everyone in every situation. Whatever though. Works for me. :P

Jake

I will try and answer some questions. :+

If red 'disappears' underwater, does fish blood disappear underwater also?..I am not sold on the fact that red disappears underwater.

Can fish see their own blood?
Can you? Maybe as long as its not coming out of your nose or mouth lol

Is a red snapper invisible?
this question just makes me laugh to hard so I cant comment

How come bass didn't adapt to turn red so that they could be invisible? God you listening, I think this one is for you. I guess the real question is does God have internet up there and if so does he visit calfishing? Has he ever logged in?

How come no freshwater game fish are red?
look at the pics from the scbbbc clear lake event, some of those fish are so beat up they are red

If I wear a red wetsuit, can I hide from sharks?
Lets find out, get your red suit and let me borrow your video camera so we can show everyone the answer. Just let me have some fun and attach some monster trebles to your back :P


On a serious note: I did hear something somewhere about this topic. I think ti was bassfan or something. I recall them saying something to the fact that since line was circular and both in and out of the water that light would penatrate through the line making it disappear in water. However hooks were made of metal and have flash and actually makes them stand out.

IMO: Red line isnt a good idea and besides we all know swampy is blind as hell sometimes and thats the only reason he needs to use it. Hell I bet he didnt even relize the line was red until someone told him :) . Like other have said i do believe red hooks have a place and time when they will make a difference. At Oroville last month fishing the FLW Fed. event I had an all day spook bite going on schooling spots in 50-200+ ft of water. I caught over 32 fish and my partner couldnt even get a limit. 95% of the fish keyed in on the red hook at the top of the spook and had it in there mouth. I believed this trip, this day it mattered. I believe these fish were schooled up chasing bait everywhere the bait went. They would see the spook on top of the bait acting wierd and would charge it from hella far away. At the last second they would see the red hook and that would be there target to kill the bait. My partner didnt have the red hook and the fish wouldnt even come close to eating the biat like mine. A lot of his fish actually turned away at the last second, while I had fish doing backflips to eat it. Like I said it mattered on that day and that time, doesnt mean I will have red hooks on all my baits.

I think the best way to find these answers is to look online for things that discuss the characteristics of the color red on the EM spectrum. You will find it is a rather peculiar light frequency. There are things about it, and its reflectiveness that are unique. There are reasons why you can use red lights in a dark room, and why red lights are used as brake lights. It all has something to do with the fact reflected red light waves don't bend or something like that. and I'm sure the fact that water creates the refraction phenomena (which bends light waves) has some part to play. I'm not smart enough to put all these things together, but maybe someone out there can look it up for us and teach us.

good topic,

Ryan Thoni


If people concentrated on the important things in life there would be a shortage of fishing poles.
~Doug Larson

Whoever said that red dissapears under water was maybe missing the boat here. Everybody here I think agrees that we see red things under water.

Bass are attracted to red because it looks like gills. You either believe that, or your completley wasting time and money buying red hooks. Nobody I know believes that bass mysteriously cannot see a bright red hook. Maybe it's true because I'm not laying claim that I know anything whatsoever about a bass's eyes. That said, i just use common sense. I don't really care to be honest. I have some red hooks, and some bronze and some silver. I just go with my instincts on what looks more natural in the water. You have to generalize that a bass sees somewhat similiar things as we humans do because why else does live bait and huddlestons seem to do better in clear water? So bass are obviously seeing our presentations pretty well. So just go with what looks natural is my motto.

I wish you could talk to the person who was trying to sell product and said "red hooks dissapear under water". If he was to read this post, your questions would have really pissed him off... hahahah.:)

Could a shark see me if I wear a red suit.

http://www.calfishing.com/gallery/v/members/bigreenjobass/

I posted on this topic last time Rob brought it up and it was a good, informative topic. I use red trebles on topwaters, shallow cranks, and have some red trailers on my spinnerbaits. I think you''ll lose "the red advantage" in deeper water not because they're invisible. I just think they turn a darker, much less flahy red. I think fish share a lot common things with us as far as vision goes but I think they have a harder time seeing more subtle changes of color such as the diiference between blacks and darker reds. Thus a fish would probably smell fish blood (yes, even bass) in deeper waters faster than it would recognize what exact color it is. But I shallow water I think red stands out better and starts that wire in the fish's brain that says "Wounded prey!" :9

But really, I'll use red to stand out more when sight fishing bed fish too. And I can't deny the effectiveness of red flake. I mean, the CA 420 Beaver is probably the most consistently best color on my local lake! And the oxblood red flake Robo ,man, unstoppable at times. Could be that in weedy lake craws can take on more of a reddish color...who knows! And I've seen bass only hit the red hook on a topwater too. Whatever, as long as they work I'll use red hooks in some situations.

Bass + Fisherman= BAASS ADDICTT!!!

Time to refer to my fish bible: "The life story of a fish: his manners and morals"

in the chapter about senses, subsection sight:
"Can fish tell color? There have been more experiments on this than anyother phase of the fish's vision. The answer is yes, as least in so far as the fisherman is concerned.

They conducted experiments with LMB in seperate, all white tanks. and fed them through different colored pipes. Some colors giving it a shock, and some giving it food.
The result was that it learned over time and stopped going to the shocking color, even when there was no shock, and still went to the feeding color even when there was no food.

but heres and interesting side note of the experiment:

"One of the first findings was that the untrained black bass, before conditioning had started, had a strong prefrence for red over all other colors."
"yellow was the next favorable"

hmmm theres something neat. doesnt exactly answer the question, and of course tanks are shallow and are full of clear waer, but an interesting note.

results:
"In the end, the expirements proved that bass could tell red from any other color with the xeption of violet and almost equally sure on yellow. greens and blues were the hardest for him to distinguish from each other and from black. Brightness proved to play no part, for not only was the bass able to tell the training red from any other shades of grey, but if he were offered some other shade of red, he would chose that over the greys.

after putting all of the color experiments togather in this book, they concluded that bass see's (colorwise) almost the same as we would if we were wearing a yellowish tinted pair of glasses.

just some interesting stuff for ya'll

Ryan Thoni


If people concentrated on the important things in life there would be a shortage of fishing poles.
~Doug Larson