So I was at the Bass-n-Tubes delta open the other day chatting it up with swampy dave, IFISH, fishcat, Mitch and the gang. A very important topic of conversation came up as we were shooting the breeze. Dave brought it up I think because he had a reel spooled up with Cajun Red line. If you're familiar with Cajun line their marketing informs the angler that red is the first color to disappear underwater and because of that, Cajun red line starts to 'disappear' to the fish in as little as 3 feet of water. This sounds good no? We all want invisible line.

So the next point brought up was one of my favorites, the red hook. The bloody lures are still multiplying out there and it seems like half of what you see now has a red hook in it. Everywhere I am reading how I need to use red hooks because they look like blood!

But wait, I'm confused... According to the folks at Cajun line, red can 'disappear' in as little as 3 feet of water. So if you are using red hooks and fishing deep, is your hook becoming invisible? Invisible hooks sound great to me but I thought the whole point of using a red hook was the blood, you know... like the fish sees the lure and mistakes the hook for... blood. Yeah that makes sense because so many things underwater are always bleeding all the damn time because fish blood only coagulates underwater almost immediately and ... oh hell my brain hurts.

So a few questions that come up in this critical discussion...

If red 'disappears' underwater, does fish blood disappear underwater also?

Can fish see their own blood?

Is a red snapper invisible?

How come bass didn't adapt to turn red so that they could be invisible?

How come no freshwater game fish are red?

If I wear a red wetsuit, can I hide from sharks?

Your input is welcome :) This is important!

Girlfriend, red is sooooo out. Black and white is everywhere this season: in solids, prints, embellished pieces, separates and accessories. Get with it!!!

*snap*

SLM....LOL!!..Nathan
www.Bettencourtbaits.com

I seem to remember learning that the colors change at certain depths. I thought red turned to blue or somehting like that after a few feet. But I really thought that red and white stayed visible for the deepest before they go away hence all the white and red salt water lures...I still think its a gimmic except for in Oregon. The smallies hit the red hook on a crank bait. If it was in the front or in the back then that was the hook they were pinned on.

There is a scientific explanation for all this but I'll try to keep it simple.

Our eyes are sensitive to light which lies in a very small region of the electromagnetic spectrum labeled "visible light". This "visible light" corresponds to a wavelength range of 400 - 700 nanometers (nm) and a color range of violet through red. The human eye is not capable of "seeing" radiation with wavelengths outside the visible spectrum. The visible colors from shortest to longest wavelength are: violet, blue, green, yellow, orange, and red. Ultraviolet radiation has a shorter wavelength than the visible violet light. Infrared radiation has a longer wavelength than visible red light. The white light is a mixture of the colors of the visible spectrum. Black is a total absence of light.

Ya still with me? OK then.

Red light has longer a wavelength and less energy than violet light. This is the reason that the color red is the first color to fade away under water. The color red will eventually fade to black as you get deeper under water and light penetration diminishes. In clear water you can see the color red at much greater depths than in dirty water. Eventually as you go deeper to where light cannot penetrate at all every color of the visible spectrum will fade to black.

Enough of that stuff my brain hurts.
I'll try to answer your questions now

If red 'disappears' underwater, does fish blood disappear underwater also?
> Nope, but only because it coagulates underwater almost immediately.

Can fish see their own blood?
> Only when they are bleeding in shallow water.

Is a red snapper invisible?
> Only to female red snappers unless they have a fat wallet and a cool car.

How come bass didn't adapt to turn red so that they could be invisible?
> Hey, evolution takes a long time. Be patient.

How come no freshwater game fish are red?
> What, Goldfish aren't good enough or red enough for you?

If I wear a red wetsuit, can I hide from sharks?
> Ummm, no.



Hey Lake, I'm watching you }(

I'm enjoying all of your responses, thankyou :)

My post was pretty tounge in cheek because I think a lot of fishing related marketing is simply made up, but the topic of fishing seeing color has always fascinated me.

When I was in 7th grade, I set out to determine if trout could see color or not. I read some various articles and books about the topic (which were mostly over my head) and I did an experiment. The experiment went something like this...

My mom drove me down to the Fillmore fish hatchery after we talked to them on the phone. They gave me 5 rainbow trout for my experiment. We put the trout in a cooler with lots of ice as they recommended. When we got to the house, all of the trout looked to be completely dead, floating upside down.

After about 20 minutes in the tank though, they all magically came back to life (phew). The hatchery had given me a nice supply of purina trout chow so I commenced taking care of these trout in an 80 gallon tank on the side of the house.

For the experiment I would put different color ping pong balls in the water. For certain colors, I would feed them. For other colors I wouldn't feed them. I'd try to track their behavior, like if they got excited and went by the ping pong balls or not. Ok ok, it wasn't the best experiment but it was 7th grade so cut me some slack :)

The results of the experiment were inconclusive but I did learn a few things about hatchery trout. For one, they grow REALLY fast. I only had the trout a few months and they grew about 2 inches. The other thing about hatchery trout is that they are prolific waste producers, I mean if you knew how much trout pooped... you'd be shocked.

Anyway, I do believe that fish can see color. Mountainbass' book had a much better experiment than mine and things like that make me believe. I also think that lure color can be very important... sometimes. Spotted bass especially seem picky about color, but largemouth can be picky too. I'm not a huge fan of red as a lure color in general but imitating red gills with something never seem like a bad idea. My best thought about color is that that the colors a fish prefers to eat have a lot to do with what color food that fish has eaten in the recent past. Fish 'get smart' pretty quick when food is involved and by in large they're a hungry bunch.

http://shopping.yahoo.com/p:What%20Fish%20See%3A%20Understanding%20Optics%20and%20Color%20Shifts%20for%20Designing%20Lures%20and%20Flies:3001164590;_ylc=X3oDMTB1c21tcDhkBF9TAzk2NjMyOTA3BHNlYwNmZWVkBHNsawNib29rcw--

Rob,Here is a link too that book I mentioned...Excellent read..Nathan


www.Bettencourtbaits.com

Insofar as none of us are trained physisists and/or ichthioid behavorialists, most of what has been said in this thread amounts to anecdote and testimony-both of which wont add up to a hill of beans. Remember, anecdotes are little stories told and retold. We embelesh as well has suffer from the human condition of emotion and faulty memory when telling our stories. Testimony suffers from the same problems. Therefor anecdote and testimony cannot be used to properly answer serious questions about the nature of our universe, regardless of whether we are investigating the the visibility of the color red at various depths under water and its feeding influences on large mouth bass, or the affect of the electro weak force on the life of a neutron inside the core of a medium sized star. Why was the scientific method developed? Because over the years a genius or two would pop up and figure out through proper observation and experimentation answers to good questions(yes, there are stupid questions) which would contrast both common sense as well as the anecdotes and testimonies of people over the years. Prior to ranting on about a subject it is wise to investigate resources. Additionally, a basic understanding of the scientific method will arm the investigator as to the reliability of the research. At this point in my life I would rather read a good novel than do any serious research on the color red and its visibility under water. However it has been quite entertaining reading your thoughts about it all. Day before yesterday I boated five very nice red rock cod. It was only red rock cod that were hitting my bait-which was a 7" blue and green/silver flake swimbait and a 4oz red jig head. Does this prove anything? No, because it was not a well designed experiment. Will I use that combination again. You bet. But there is no garauntee that it will work. The bottom line is-fishing is fun. I like to think that much of what we fish with works at one time or another and every time out offers different conditions in which to try and get those ichthiods(I don't even know if thats the proper term) to ingest my artificial food. If you read this entire response-thank you. I just wrote it mostly to have fun writing and to play with some big words. I am able to write this but not smart enough to figure out how to post my dang pictures. I don't know how to change the file size! I am using a Mac with OS10.4 and Iphoto, my browser is Safari. Can anyone help me?

Wow. The instrumental values shared among fellow board members here are re-iterated throughout various posts as seen above. The real reason for biological field testing is to advance human kind farther than we ever imagined. The commercialism effect on science has regressed some people to make statements that are not necessarily true. IE Red is invisible under water. When somebody says something about a product, its always good to see if there is a motive first. The person that said that might have worked for Berkely or another fishing co. A clear and obvious motive would be to sell their red products. Do we believe everything we hear? Unforunately, all to much we do. The stuff that is on TV, all the commercials....Very rarely does somebody investigate if the commercials are respresnting the full truth. And my assumption would be that very rarely does the commercial industry represnt truth. Instead, subbing out the truth for money. In all, life is good. And I want to go fishing. Also, the systematic approach that I use to go fishing is so complicated I would crash the entire calfishing website if I was to explain it. Actually I can sum up my systematic approach like this: go with your instincts. And most importantly of all.....Don't listen to dock talk. Don't listen to anyone. I've never gotten on some amazing, big fish bite by listening to a bunch of drunk rednecks talk about fishing...I've gotten on big fish by using common sense and going with my instincts.....And, finally, I'm going fishing. Thank you.

http://www.calfishing.com/gallery/v/members/bigreenjobass/

Dammit Mountainbass! You gave away the next big sales gimmick before I got my patents in. ...'The study learned that The Bass favored the color RED ,and "the next favored color was YELLOW!" My new line of YELLOW trebles is supposed to hit the stores by Christmas,but NOOOOOOO , now ALL the CopyCat Bait Co lures will already come with YELLOW trebles and I'll lose my shirt when no one has to upgrade from RED to YELLOW trebles when we fishermen/marketeers collectively decide that "the bass have now become conditioned to RED hooks and will no longer hit lures with the aforemention RED hooks"...and every one is scrambling to mass produce YELLOW hooks before my Boutique line of Hi-Vis YELLLLLLLOW hooks is available from Tackle Wishhouse! OK, OK ,what is the NEXT favored color AFTER Yellow????????? PLEH EM!:P x( :7 -- ALEX the YELLOW........

I much prefer it when a woman leaves me, for then I know the mistake is hers. - Charles Bukowski