Hi guys,
this is my first time posting and I would like to start by saying what an awsome site.
I am a lure maker and I am going to design a swim bait. I wanted to know what you guys look for in a swim bait for LMB
be as detailed as you can. I especialy want to know what you would want the lure to do. like tail action fast med or slow . And how much weight and what do you like or dislike about the diferent types that are out there now.
I will be making my master from a casted trout mold so it will actualy look like a real trout.
thanks in advance for your help!
Matt

it must have:

all fins exact

very realistic and detailed color

RED behind gills

detailed head and scales

very good tail action, back and forth (unlike osprey were only the end moves in a swaying action)

detailed dots

a little bit of head action (back and forth)

nice taxidery eyes (if possible)

7-10 inches long

3-d unlike osprey were it has a flat back

different weight in baits(one for surface, one for deep...)

slow to medium retrieve speed

try somthing new like an open mouth or somthing

good luck

tell how it comes out

thanks for the reply Jesse.
I used to be a taxidermist and do fiberglass fish mounts so the realism wont be a problem unlike many other baits that claim to look like real trout.
all opinions welcome !
Matt

Number one most important factor: Originality

It has to be different than just about anything else on the market. There are so many specialized baits already, that most categories are already near perfection. If you try to make a jointed bait, you'll have a hard time trying to make a better one than the slammer. Paddle tail, the osprey and rago trout are tough to beat as well, and there's also a ton of baits in that category currently on the market. Yours may get left in the dust if it's no different than the other dozens of paddle tail swimbaits currently available (which are tried and true). 3:16 has some pretty good original designs, that's what I like about mickey, he's original.

Word of warning- if you're going to make a swimbait to sell commercially, first of all make sure you're not stepping on anybody's toes already making swimbaits. Secondly, make sure your bait will catch fish, not necessarily fishermen. How pretty does an MS Slammer look anyway? Not as fancy as a castaic hardbait that's for sure, but it's the most productive hardbait that I know of. If it catches fish, the fishermen will follow.

Your design is going to take a lot of original thought to present something that will catch fish consistently, warrant its price tag and give people a reason to buy that one over the other dozens already available. I would suggest spending a lot of time throwing swimbaits, a lot of time talking to guys that throw swimbaits if you can, and knowing the ins and outs of swimbait fishing and where there's room for improvement and addition.

With all that said, here's a few things I find important in just about any swimbait:

Hookup percentage: ms slammer with gammie trebles probably has the best hookup ratio of any swimbait. The more trebles the better on swimbaits. You don't carolina rig a trout bait, there's only a couple situations where you need a weedles trout bait, and that niche is pretty well filled (mission fish). The vast majority of the time if you're fishing swimbaits like you should, it'll be in open water and you should be more concerned about hooking fish rather than getting snagged.

Size: if you're replicating a trout, 7" should be the smallest you go. I'd say the largest would be 14", maybe bigger. 12" is a safe bet for sales.

Motion: good action is key. In my opinion the megabait charlie is a great example of what not to do... Make your bait not swim like the charlie and you'll be ok :D Best action award would probably go to the stocker trout. Trout in real life just kind of cruise with flicks of their tail. You want your swimbait to exaggerate their motion like it's struggling, or looks like it can't burst off very fast if it's ambushed.

Color: this plays a minor role. Size and motion seem to be the stand bys. If your swimbait is colored somewhat like a trout, it'll be fine. This is the part where you can catch more anglers than fish. A pretty paint job is fine and dandy, but I guarantee a bare wood colored slammer will still catch as well as the day it was painted. I used to have a slammer that was so chewed up it looked nothing like a trout color anymore, and it still caught just as well.

A little more than $.02
-Brian

A few things I DON'T want...

I don't want a swimbait that I have to spend time tuning, inserting nail weights, etc...

I don't want a swimbait that's going to tear up/fall apart/become unusable after the first 5 fish.

I don't want a swimbait that I have to spend an hour re-rigging to get a halfway decent hookup ratio.

The fact that there are very few swimbaits available on the market that meet all these requirements (MS Slammer and the 3:16 lures come to mind) tells me there's plenty of room in the market for truely well-designed swimbaits.

There has been a lot of new sinking swimbaits recently, I want to see more floating/diving baits. Something that dives a little deeper than the Slammer and has a more realistic finish. Something like the old original Castaic hard bait that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

One idea I've been thinking about recently is a bait that's kind of half way in between the current castaic hard-head soft-body trouts and the full wood baits like slammer and generic trout. The bait would have same realistic chubby sillouette as castaic trouts. The bait would be jointed in the middle. The front half would be completely wood much like the front half of the old original castaics. The back half would have wood for where the eyes for the joint and second treble hook attach, but otherwise be as much soft plastic as possible. So it's like joining the back half of the new castaic with the front half of the old castaic. There would have to be some wood in the back half for the joint eye and second hook (second hook is the whole point of all this mess) but not much. Hopefully no wood visible in the back half.

Or if someone would recreate an original wood castaic trout like bait and not charge $100 each for them that would be nice as well.

Good luck,

Nico

First off - good luck. Everyone is jumping into the swimbait market right now.

What do I want in a swimbait. I want a bait that looks and swims like a frickin trout! I see all these baits coming out lately that don't really look like a trout. You know what looks like a trout, a Castaic Hardbait, Castaic Softbait, Generic hardbait, MS Slammer, Stocker Trout, and a couple other ones. Some of these baits look more like trout than others, but they all have one thing in common. They either look like a trout, or they swim like a trout. Stocker trout doesn't look exactly like a trout, but it sure as heck swims like a trout. MS Slammer doesn't look exactly like a trout, but it has a trout profile and it sure swims nice. Castaic Hardbait doesn't swim exactly like a trout, but it sure looks like a trout. You get the drift there.

I also second what Nico said about having to re-rig, nail weight, tune repeatedly, superglue etc. Fishable baits are what stay on the end of my line. I don't have time to tune baits every trip. If a bait doesn't swim after 2 or 3 casts, I cut it off and throw it on the deck and tie on the next one. What catches fish is what says on the end of the line. I think this is half the reason so many fish get caught on the Slammer. You put it on, tune it once if you need to, then you fish it and it's good trip after trip after trip after trip. Getting 100 fish on a bait is no big deal. For $30 a bait, that's a bargain at twice the price.

Take a 5 inch Big Hammer and put it on a jig head ;)

is your bait going to be wooden? if so, the castaic trout hard bait comes to mind. you can make it out of wood, or even injected, hard plastic. thats what i want to see, and not at 100 bux a pop either. something that dives 4 feet on a medium retrieve, and crawls the surface on a slow one, but maintains the same good action however fast you crank it. most importantly just ake it have the profile of a trout, like not cylindrical, but ovular(is that a word?) you know what im sayin. well if its gonna be a soft plastic bait, you may as wekk just give up...there are MANY soft plastic lures out there. i throw the stocker, thats a bait i think draws the most strikes. if you can make a stocker without making it a STOCKER, i mean not usin the wing, but has the same action, and has 2 hooks, you've got a winning bait.
-patrick

________________________
Assalt Lures
http://www.assalt.com
Big Hammer
http://www.swimbait.com

Catch and Release!

Thanks for all the responses,
I will start by saying that I have been making swimbaits for about 10 years now but they are for saltwater. I am also very experienced in fishing the saltwater swimbaits but I dont have that much experiance with freshwater swimbaits.
I will not be making a wood or hard bait yet.
I am not realy worried about my bait getting lost with all the others
because in my opinion the ONLY swimbait that I have seen that looks like a trout is the castaic.
Here are some of my ideas. 1 making a jig head molded from an actual trout head and have replacable bodies kinda like your big hammers except haveing all the fins and top. The head could be solid lead and way between 4 and 7 ounces and would be good for trolling. or I could make the head out of resin and it would be lighter.
2 a solid soft plastic bait that swims on top like an osprey but looks like a real trout. or I can even make it float.
3 I am also going to make a blugill cast from an actual blugill
I plan on making it sit upright when its on the ground that way you could swim it, use it like a jig, and it would make an awsome bed bait.
I have made a shad swimbait that kills the fish down here in san diego. I will try to post a link but if it doesn't work you can see it on momentoffame.com goto the fishing section and then click on OTHER. IT SHOULD BE ON THE FIRST PAGE OR 2. It is called the Mattshad. check it out and tell me what you think.
thanks for all your suggestion! I am taking notes.
Matt


http://momentoffame.com/snapshot.html?id=53868
http://momentoffame.com/snapshot.html?id=53869

Attachment #1, (.html?id=53868 file)

Hey matt that shad bait looks really good. Do you sell them yet? I would like some for a club tourney I have soon. The shad at that lake are everywhere and that is what the fish are on right now. let me know.

Sorry Jeff, I didn't mean to tease you. they are not for sale yet.
I will probably have them out this spring. I just posted the pics to give you guys an idea of what some of my baits look like.
thanks for the compliment.
Matt

I think it shoud be 7-8 inches long, 3-D, resmebles a trout exactly or pretty much like one. i think the madshad is awsome like i said bbefore and cant wait to get one. :9

Wow, those look great. They look small. I'm only guessing but they're only about 2 to 4 inches, right? Is there a jig head in there or is it just a hook?
I'd love to get a hold of a bluegill smimbait that I could fish slow or fast and it would still swim properly. The Castaic bluegill or crappie roll over to easily.

Speaking of bed baits, I like to put a split shot right in front of the Castaic bluegill or crappie when bed fishing. The nose down-eating attitude really pisses 'em off.