Okay people...I wasn't gonna say anymore to this but here it goes. Some have responded, some are p.c., some are lemming, but all have nicely danced around my 'issue'.

I get the bad decision part of it...yada, yada, yada. Now how are the conditions for the field equal? It's the most basic part of a tournament, isn't it?

I will leave it at that and have no more to say on the matter, except for one last observation. A uniform, a bulletproof vest and a Glock. How much more erotic can you get? Ranger Angela was smoking hot.

Delta fishing this weekend...anybody?

OK. I am still a little lost on this subject. Whether it is fair or not? Does everyone play by the same rules? Does everyone have the option to run? If everyone has the same options it is fair. I fish bass tounaments from a boat. The boat I fish from is a Skeeter and will run 64 MPH. Some of the other boats will run faster and some people fish from a Bass Tracker that only goes 30 MPH. We all have the same rules and the same options of where we want to fish. Just because I can get there faster than a Bass tracker but slower than someonoe else doesn't meant it is not fair. As long as everyone has to play by the same rules all is fair. Isn't it?

Gil, here's my 0.02 on the fairness aspect of running for whatever it's worth. If everyone has the same option to do it (and we did), it is fair. Like fishnjohn points out, in a boat tourney people can run anywhere they like and that is fair. So what makes it unfair in a kickboat tourney?

On a place like Clear Lake running is just another option that helps to spread things out. Can you imagine what State park would have been like if there were no running and 40 kickboaters were all fishing there? The way the bite was at State park it wouldn't have been nearly as much fun as it was :+



BTW, there are pictures of your park ranger in the SCBBBC photo gallery ;-)


MT
My mission in life is to daily confuse one person's thinking with the facts.

Where is this picture of the ranger I have been reading about?

Some people are going to read this post and get what I'm saying. For some I am going to be unable to communicate my thoughts in writing like I want to. Just hope you take a minute to read the whole thing.

To me the root issue behind running is bass care. As someone who, like many of you, has caught a lot of bass, I consider myself to be very good at fish care and fish handling. But, I do not feel that I can take good enough care of the bass when driving them around in my truck. I speak from experience, having "ran" at two prior State Classics. I brought back live fish and released them both times, with none dead, but I did not feel right about it.

I didn't feel right about it because of the way the fish looked at the end of the day. They were over-stressed, and over-handled. I did not like how other people's fish looked either. Many fish came in with scratched eyes and red fins/tails. At the tournaments I fished, many of the bass were dead.

When I fish tournaments, I like to do it in good conscience. But when I put those fish in a cooler in my truck at those tournaments, my conscience told me I was doing something wrong. It told me that I was putting a measly couple hundred bucks ahead of the fish that I am so passionate about.

Therefore, I did not want to run any more. And by extension, I did not want to fish "running" tournaments any more because I had no interest in handicapping myself. Mitch does this about every year at the State Classic, fishing in state park and not running. Power to you Mitch, but damn man - that would eat at me.

Gil, if I'm missing the mark here as to why this bothers you, let me know. It has been a hot button issue for me for probably 10 years.

This is not intended to be a slam on the people who run the club and fish SCBBBC events. We are all fishermen sharing the love of bass fishing and man-powered boats.

But myself and the SCBBBC club have a disagreement when it comes to this notion that to have a good tournament, you have to allow guys to drive around the lake in their trucks and move fish from livewell to truck to weigh in. You guys wouldn't have gone through all the trouble of obtaining permits if you did not think it was a necessary component to having a good time.

My view is that you don't have to allow running to have a good club tournament. We're fishing for what amounts to "no money" here. A good club tournament to me is measured by stiff competition, good camaraderie, and the shared experience both on and off the water. It's about learning new stuff, BSing, and fishing hard. It's not measured by how many or how big the bass are. That's just a bonus if it happens.

When I think back on the best times I had with the B-n-T I think about the horrible Naci tournament where Dave and Clint were making Margaritas, and the rainy Berryessa where people's tents were blowing away in the wind, and all the times Lake came in behind me and caught one, and watching Darce work senkos like topwaters in Middle, and giving away that float tube to a young angler at the Open raffle, and seeing a Delta money reap for the first time, and losing to Castro by a few ounces at Pinto, and winning at Naci with 6lbs over 2 days, and the casting contests - damn those casting contests. Ha.

And when I consider all those things, it becomes clear that you don't have to drive fish around in trucks to get great memories like those. All the best memories could be had right out in front of the State Park if you're focused on what's important.

Respectfully

-Rob Belloni

I totally agree with everything you said. Keeping the fish alive and not stressing them should be the number one priority. And maybe there is some common ground that can make everyone happy and keep the fish safe also. Everyone needs to think about why they are there. Is it for fun, is it the thrill of competition or just to hang out with the guys and tell stories. Whatever your reason is for fishing, you need to choose the club or tournament that makes you happy.

Thanks Rob for the great post on this topic of running. I like were your coming from big time and I totally understand your thoughts. I love fishing the B-N-T open and not running, but at M-N-M in spring it fishs great. We can really spread out with 50+ anglers. I wish I didn't feel like running made it funner for me, but it does as I can then get away from the croud while fishing. Rest asured Rob, I do all that I possably can to make sure these anglers are handling there fish as good as humanly possable.

I do drive as if I have a wedding cake in my truck when I have live fish aboard. I guaranty you Rob that I will always go out of my way to do what I can to make sure all the runners take as good a care for our greenies. Thanks again for a great post on this topic.
And thanks for sharing those memories you have while fishing the B-N-T tournaments.
Rich

Rich - By getting permitted and chaning the rules to 3 fish, I think you've gone a long way toward to legitimizing the sport and building respect for everyone who fishes in both clubs. I know you care a lot about the fish, and I don't think that there's any kickboater or tuber who would ever go out on the water intending to jack up the fish. You are an ambassador for the sport of float tube / kick boat bass fishing, and I have a lot of respect for you.

I do feel though, that in the heat of a tournament, and in the desire to catch the most and the biggest - fish care an become a lower priority than it should be. So I make a stink about it from time to time to encourage the guys who organize the tournaments to structure the tournaments in a way that is good for the bass. While I still don't feel right about running, I am encouraged to hear Mitch's report that things are going better.

It has definitely been too long since I've fished in my kickboat and fishing a tournament or two next season is certainly on my radar now that I'm moved back to the bay and living in Dublin.

Let me put one carrot on a stick while we are having this conversation and see if I can get a nibble :) If the SCBBBC runs the State Classic with a no running rule (no driving somewhere, fishing, then driving back), I will make a point to come to the tournament, and I will call on some connections to assemble the best "big bass" prize ever offered in a kickboat tourney for whoever catches the big bass of the event.


-Rob

Gil,
I am not Dancin around it when I say it is a matter of choice. We all had a choice when fishing a DFG permited running scbbbc event. In my opinion, it is fair. We all had the choice to run or not. The only fair or not fair part I saw is that the locals get more time to pre fish, but then that is the case in any tournament. Like I refered to in another thread as an example, the Pro/am formats of shared wieght vs non shared wieght are a matter of choice. To fish a shared wieght format pro/am as an AM and get mad because the non-boater(AM) won the tournament and never caught a fish is very similar to what your saying here. It was a matter of choice to the type of event you were fishing. I have a feeling you are refering more to the ethical side of "running" in a man powered kickboat/floattube event, when we (B-n-T'rs) find the pride in making it a all human powered eventnd you are right. But it is still a choice of fishing this type of event or that type of event. No right or wrong to it. just my opinion man.

Rob,
I agree with ya on the fishing with B-n-T...and the camping is always a great time (even in the rain). But I have to ask, how is fish handling not an issue when I am in my brand new $50,000 Bass boat running at 50 plus MPH across a lake with 4 foot rollers and my boat is just getting slammed every time I go over a roller and I have a full livewell(FLW event 10 fish), because I am on my way to a wieghin? In my opinion, the permited livewells in these kickboat events (including B-n-T) out shine many $50,000 Bass boats fish handling, running or not. I think proper fish handling comes down to the individual in the end.

Mitch,
You have pic's of the Ranger!? Can't wait to see what photo-shop does with this one.... :P

DISCLAIMER: I don't own a $50,000 Bass boat,(or any bass boat for that matter) but I wish I did :-)

Bryan Vogt

To fish is to live!

I thought B-N-T alounds you to drive to any spot on the lake and put in. As long as you don't get out of the water. So if I was fishing the B-N-T open in May I could go up to Glenhaven and put in and fish all the way back. Not much of a diffrence as far as I see it.
As for the fish's well being. I think that WE as tournament fisherman need to hold each other accountable for the well being of all the fish. We also need to teach the newbes and hold some of the old members accountable. I've seen guys filling there see through touts with water pitchers. That just is not cool. There is going to be fish mortality bottom line. The only way that this is not going to happen is if we take the hooks off of our lines. I'm not ready for that. I like to holding the little green guys.

I totaly respect your thoughts on running and see why you like not to run. I just hope you can see why the guys at SCBBBC like to run.

Two differences:

1. Until the running permit was obtained taking fish out of the water and driving them to wiegh in was illegal. I am really glad to see that Rich and SCBBBC have addressed this by obtaining a permit. Putting in away from the designated launch and staying on the water (i.e. rowing or kicking your way back to wiegh in) has always been legal.

2. The range that running allows. It should be pretty obvious that you can drive a lot further than you can row or kick.

I do not question that each club has the right to fish the way they want and that some people really like the option of running. I simply stated my OPINION about the subject which frankly isn't likely to change. This time the fact that the tournament was a running event did not affect my choice to fish it as I also had 49er tickets for Sunday and drove directly to the airport after the game to fly to a business conference. It has however been and will continue to be a factor in my decisions to fish or not fish these events in the future.

Buzzfish

I love this discussion! Here's more of my 0.02.

Many things have changed in the last year or two with respect to running in a kickboat tourney.

In the past running did stress the fish a whole lot more than it does now. With the new livewell rules that have been put in place by both clubs and the fact that the vast majority of guys are using kickboats and not using drag bags anymore the mortality rates have dropped dramatically. I have kept the records on this for BnT ever since I started as the assisant TD in the delta region and have the numbers to prove it!

I think angler awareness and the new livewell rules are responsible for the reduction in mortality we have seen this year in kickboat tourneys. Drag bags flat out injure fish, even before they are ever placed into a running livewell in your vehicle. In the past drag bags were very common even for some kickboaters. Not anymore!

There are permit conditions that the DFG has given Rich and the SCBBBC that are designed specifically with the well being of the fish in mind. One is you can only transport 3 fish (hence the 3 fish limit at the classic). This is done so that the livewell isn't overcrowded if it is only a minimum size 48 quart ice chest. Next you must have a recirculating pump in the transport livewell and it must be running 100% of the time fish are in the tank. And finally you must use a product such as Rejuvinade in your transport livewell when fish are present.

I have been at the weigh ins at these running tourneys with the new rules and conditions in place and I can tell you that the fish coming to the scale have never looked better. You can tell no difference between the runners fish and the non runners fish as far as I can tell.
Nobody can ever make me believe that the fish in the livewells of the boats going back to Konocti Vista on Saturday afternoon that were getting beat by the 4 foot rollers were better off than the fish that came back to State park in a truck.

Do I run? No.
Will I ever run? Not unless I think I need to to win a tourney!
Did I ever think running was bad for the fish? Yes, I was right there with Rob on that one.
Do I think it's bad for the fish now? No, at least not any worse than running a lake in a boat.

You guys should come to one of these tourneys and see for yourself!

MT
My mission in life is to daily confuse one person's thinking with the facts.

OK I wont bite my tounge anymore. I will put it as simple as it gets for me. I joined BNT to fish BNT tournaments and BNT rules. I think that we should just have our schedule and SCBBBC can have there own not these shared points events. I also think that we should Not SCHEDULE a tournament on the same weekend as the classic so if BNT wants to fish it then we can make that choice. I dont think we should be forced to fish that event to get our points.

I know that I didnt go this year (even though I was 1 point out of AOY) for a number of reasons but a major factor was 3 fish and running for me. I just flat out dont agree with it. I still feel good about my decision but I am still pissed it was a mandatory BNT event.

We have 2 very different clubs that offer different rules, it should be left up to an individual if they want to fish the event of another club. Not because the other club is upset becasue the other doesnt support there event that is ridiculos!!! That is some 2nd grade @!*#.



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I'm sorry you feel that way Scott but the choices you make are yours and I respect that.

The SCBBBC has had our May open as a points event on their schedule ever since it started. Before the modern era (multiple regions)the October Invitational/Classic was always on our schedule as a BnT points event. In 2004 it was removed for some reason.

As far as I can tell the SCBBBC State Classic will more than likely be on the BnT schedule for many years to come as a show of support.

Sometimes people just help other people out. At least that is how it should be in my opinion. Others opinions may differ on this and I'm OK with that!

It is a great tourney to fish with a bunch of cool people who have the exact same interest as the rest of us. It is on one of the greatest bass fisheries in the country at a time of year that usually has some real good fishing all over the lake. I don't understand how some minor differences between clubs can make someone decide not to fish it, but oh well!


MT
My mission in life is to daily confuse one person's thinking with the facts.

Mitch I agree my opinion is mine no need to be sorry about how I feel....

Thats great that they have had our event on there schedule I am sure a bunch of guys would show up anyways even if it wasnt as it is a hour away for most.

I never said anything about not helping anyone out.

Hopefully we as a club can have a meeting so we can discuss the schedule and issues from the past year so we can all voice our opinions and actually be heard before the schedule comes out, even though it sounds like the decision has already been made.

I still feel great about my decision to not fish not everyone can afford a $500 weekend min. to go fish and then turn around and do it again in 1 month for TOC. No need to try and understand why "minor diiffernces" made a difference when from my view they arent that minor.

The Meeting will happen!

Start thinking of who you all want to vote for as Vice President!


MT
My mission in life is to daily confuse one person's thinking with the facts.

I understand all of your concerns and would like to sit down and discuss at a year end meeting sometime after the TOC. At the meeting we will be discussing the direction of BNT, schedule and all the changes that are expected to come in '09. For now lets put this topic to rest until the meeting.

Thanks

Paul

Where is the link to Park Ranger Angela?

I would say it is what it is and being able to run didn't happen over night. It was a gradual progression.

Kind of a bummer for folks that don't want to get that into it though. In that aspect, it's not a level playing field.