Facebook YouTube Tacklewarehouse.com
Printer-friendly copy Email this topic to a friend
Top Calfishing.com Freshwater Fishing in California topic #18250
View in threaded mode

Subject: "Los Vaqueros Trout Plants" 1 | 2 | 3 | Previous topic | Next topic
swimbaitMon Sep-26-11 08:55 PM
Charter member
9890 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#18250, "Los Vaqueros Trout Plants"


  

          

On the environmental scoreboard, the score right now in my mind is 1 to 1.

We won the Shadow Cliffs back ponds issue.

The ongoing battle is over trout plants.

You, me and anyone with half a brain knows that stocked trout are not an environmental problem in our warm water fisheries. But the Center for Biological Diversity has sued the California Department of Fish and Game and forced them to study every single location in the state where trout are stocked to see if it's OK to stock trout.

In thinking about this (and boy have I thought about this) I think the best way to fight this right now is to go after one specific location and try to get trout stocked again.

I think Los Vaqueros reservoir near Livermore, CA is the place to wage the battle.

Los Vaqueros is as man-made as they come. There was a tiny creek there - dry most of the year - that was dammed up to make a lake that is filled with Delta water.

From that Delta water comes every possible variety of delta fish. Striped bass, silverside, Wakasagi Minnow, carp, threadfin shad, Sacramento Blackfish, etc. And in to that mix they've stocked landlocked king salmon, rainbow trout, kokanee salmon, brown trout, largemouth bass, channel catfish, and how knows what else (crappie, bluegill, ???)

The notion that stocked rainbow trout offer any substantive threat to native species (the species whose entire habitat was flooded by a lake mind you) is beyond absurd. It's ludicrous to the point of insanity.

And yet here we are, years after the lawsuit, and the CA DFG doesn't have the budget to conduct the right studies to prove the trout won't impact red legged frogs and tiger salamanders. On top of that, for some reason that I am still exploring, the Department is being required to get approval from the US Fish and Wildlife Service (USFWS) in addition to whatever survey they conduct.

This additional level of study is unprecedented at other locations on the approved waters list (do you really think USFWS signed off to stock Contra Loma or Rancho Seco!). It's complete nonsense and if I had to guess it's simply a legal maneuver from a beleaguered DFG that has become gun shy in the midst of legal action and bureaucratic mud.

So I don't know how to win this one. But I didn't know how to get Shadow Cliffs reopened either. And I've been after the trout stocking thing for a while now with no real progress yet. But I'm feeling buoyed by a little success and spoiling for a new fight.

Noah Greenwald and Deborah Sivas, if you are reading this, you are two truly sad and ignorant human beings. Ignorant to the environment you live in, naive to the reality of nature, naive to the complexities of of real ecosystems.

You've sued the CA DFG and forced them to make the environment worse. You've taken away recreation for the average citizen and turned kids to video games and drugs. You've sent people who would have been happy to catch a stocked fish off to hunt down our real native species. You've wasted hundreds of thousands of dollars of taxpayer money that could have been spent protecting and improving the environment.

I'm tired of you and your wrongheaded, ignorant policy. Open your mind zealots. Get away from the computer and get out in to nature. Learn what you are really doing. Realize that all you've done in our warm water reservoirs is cause harm.

I'm coming after this one. Los Vaqueros. Trout. It's time to get it right.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Replies to this topic: Pages 1 | 2 | 3
swimbaitFri Sep-30-11 01:52 PM
Charter member
9890 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#18261, "RE: Los Vaqueros Trout Plants"
In response to Reply # 10


  

          

It's ok. It took 18 months to get the shadow cliffs back ponds open. Maybe this will take 36. I'm not going anywhere, and I want those trout stocks to start again because there is not one single half-way good reason why they shouldn't stock.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

UrbanFri Sep-30-11 04:28 PM
Member since Sep 22nd 2004
402 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#18262, "RE: Los Vaqueros Trout Plants"
In response to Reply # 11


          

Just out of curiosity, why Los Vaqueros? Also, I havent looked into the issue you are checking out, but I do know that in many lakes the issue with stocking trout has nothing to do with frogs or any other amphibian. It has to do with the potential for stocked trout to get downstream of the dam and inter-breed with steelhead. Genetic introgression is a bad thing. This is why the lower Lagoon does not get stocked anymore. Im not gonna get into it, but one look at the outflow of the Lagoon, and knowing it flows through heavily populated areas before reaching the ocean, is pretty much all I need to be pissed about the whole process. But dont worry, triploid stockings are on the way, just no telling how long before implementation.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

NicoFri Sep-30-11 06:02 PM
Member since Nov 03rd 2001
1914 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#18263, "RE: Los Vaqueros Trout Plants"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

Rob and I both live about 15 minutes away from Vaqueros, so there's a large incentive to make sure the fishing close to home is not being destroyed. The lake is currently kind of screwed up from the big drawdown/dam construction. But once they start filling it up again, stocked trout will be important to making it a great fishing lake in the years to come. It used to kick out some nice largemouth and striper, but most of the larger fish are all starved out and skinny now. Not nice.

The lake also is unique in the sense that it's totally artificial, so no pre-existing steelhead condition that I know of. Anyway, getting the trout back sounds like a real possibility at this point. Definitely worth fighting for!

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

swimbaitFri Sep-30-11 06:16 PM
Charter member
9890 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#18264, "RE: Los Vaqueros Trout Plants"
In response to Reply # 12


  

          

Los Vaqueros because it's as man made as a lake can be. The creek that flows in is tiny, most all of the water is pumped in from the Delta and sucked right out to go other places. There's virtually no downstream flow and so virtually no risk of inbred steelhead issues.

It's also filled with large predatory fish, most of which were introduced intentionally and reproduce naturally in the lake. You'll never, ever get rid of those fish (imagine telling Contra Costa County residents you were going to rotenone it).

Since there's no steelhead issue, and the other predatory fish - which you will never get rid of - are far more effective predators of frogs and salamanders, adding more trout to the mix is inconsequential. If anything, it satisfies the large predatory fish!

So just like reopening the back ponds at Shadow Cliffs to fishing was the right thing to do because closing them saved nothing and protected nothing, planting trout at Los Vaqueros is also the right thing to do.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

swimbaitFri Sep-30-11 06:26 PM
Charter member
9890 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#18266, "RE: Los Vaqueros Trout Plants"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Day 5. What's new...

I learned today that the Fish and Wildlife service has indicated verbally they are in favor of stocking trout at Vaqueros. Great news!

The missing link is a formal request (written letter style) from CA DFG to Fish and Wildlife making the case and asking for the official ruling.

Well, word is DFG might just be sending that right now. Next week. So I feel that silly wave of optimism hitting me. But I'm girding for a 36 month ordeal :)

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

UrbanSat Oct-01-11 06:15 AM
Member since Sep 22nd 2004
402 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#18267, "RE: Los Vaqueros Trout Plants"
In response to Reply # 15


          

Right on Rob, as always Im stoked for your enthusiasm, its encouraging for me considering what I deal with day to day. Its very hard for me to deal with this type stuff on a day to day basis, so when I see somebody from the so called general public take a stance it gives me well needed inspiration and I thank you for that.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

NufoSat Oct-01-11 11:26 AM
Member since Oct 22nd 2007
17 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#18268, "RE: Los Vaqueros Trout Plants"
In response to Reply # 15


          

Rob,

Awesome job. I love Los v and your tenacity

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

swimbaitSat Oct-01-11 12:18 PM
Charter member
9890 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#18269, "RE: Los Vaqueros Trout Plants"
In response to Reply # 17


  

          

The marina folks are saying they have a good budget for fish stocking right now but with all the dam work going on and the corresponding closing down of the marina and a lot of the fishing access, they may wait until next year to plant.

I can understand why they are doing it. But in the mean time if the DFG can come in and stock this fall/winter it would be great to fill the gap through until next year.

One thing that I think happens with the trout is that it takes a certain volume of stocking to overcome predation by striper and birds and get to the point where trout fishing is solid. Other years from what I gather, you could go fish from shore throughout the year and get trout.

The last few years since DFG stopped stocking, they've been planting private hatchery trout only, and trout fishing has only been good during the stock. After that the striper, birds, and fishermen get the rest and there isn't much left to catch.

By next winter, if DFG and private stocks are going in, along with the lake refilling after the dam expansion, I think you could see quality trout fishing again. Which in turns bring more people to the lake and adds to the quality of the experience.

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

swimbaitMon Oct-03-11 04:01 PM
Charter member
9890 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#18274, "RE: Los Vaqueros Trout Plants"
In response to Reply # 0


  

          

Hey where is my return phone call from FWS?

Unsurprisingly, I haven't gotten one.

I think I'll call again tomorrow :)

With today's storm the water temps should be getting in to nice trout planting range. Sad when I look at the DFG stocking page and see only a handful of lakes on the schedule. We gotta fix this!

http://dfg.ca.gov/fish/Hatcheries/FishPlanting/BayDelta.asp

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

swimbaitThu Oct-13-11 07:52 PM
Charter member
9890 posts
Click to send email to this author Click to send private message to this authorClick to view this author's profileClick to add this author to your buddy list
#18278, "RE: Los Vaqueros Trout Plants"
In response to Reply # 0
Thu Oct-13-11 07:53 PM by swimbait

  

          

Day eleventeen, what have we learned...

DFG is saying the letter to FWS is going next week. This is really (no joke) pretty fast progress so I'm still feeling happy about Los Vaqueros potentially getting trout soon.

DFG indicates they don't have a full allotment of trout ready to go to Vaqueros should it open, but they do have some. So we may really see trout soon there.

I also learned today that the Pre-stocking Evaluation (PSE in acronym form) for San Pablo Dam is waiting one last approval before DFG trout can be stocked there again. The vibe is that's it's close. FWS doesn't seem to be involved in that one.

With San Pablo full of water and trout plants, there's some hope that big bass fishing could one day be good again. It's a small hope though with the ratio of spotted bass to largemouth bass somewhere around 20 to 1 at this point. We'll always remember the glory days, but San Pablo will never be the lake it once was.

I can tell you in no uncertain terms, San Pablo was the best Nor-Cal bass lake for fish over 15lbs up until 2006. There were dozens of fish from 15 to 19+ pounds in that lake. If not for the barni fishermen that illegally stocked spotted bass in the lake, it might have had a chance to regain that prominence.

The word at Coyote is that DFG doesn't have the resources to conduct the needed studies to secure approval to stock trout again. The blame on this one can be directed at the Santa Clara County Water District 100%.

You see... lake managers that manage their lakes for fishing like East Bay Regional Parks did the frog and steelhead evaluations themselves and provided DFG with the data. So places like Del Valle and the front lake at Shadow Cliffs could get trout right away after the initial shut down of stocking.

But the Santa Clara County Water district, from every indication I've gotten, doesn't care about fishing at their lakes. The park rangers and their union may be in favor, but the water district people could do without the hassle of recreational lake usage.

They're in it for the water, and things like stocked trout, quagga mussel, and MTBE fuel are all just a thorn in their side.

Someone should step and and run for the board. It's a free country after all. Do these people look like they ever go outside?

http://www.valleywater.org/About/BoardMembers.aspx

  

Alert Printer-friendly copy | Reply | Reply with quote | Top

Top Calfishing.com Freshwater Fishing in California topic #18250 1 | 2 | 3 | Previous topic | Next topic
Powered by DCForum+
© Copyright Robert Belloni 1997-2012. All Rights Reserved.
This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed without express written consent.