This may have been posted before but is there any difference between them? Any advantages of one over the other? do they fish the same?

________________

Sonny

2004 - 6 Bass 2 Trout $219.20 in Gear

I have them both but haven't thrown either one. They are really similar....Does anyone know what one came out first?....

I think the actual date will always be disputed, but on AC's site it has no exact date of when the AC Minnow was introduced.Both were in the Mid to early 90's. AC can always brag that he was the "first" to make the big baits, but I personally think he has been left in the dust as far as quality and design goes. I was far from impressed with the last few baits I have ordered from AC.

Anyway,not trying to bash...sorry.

The breakdown of both in Calfishing's hardbait review section is pretty much dead on.

The MS Slammer was made before the A.C. Minnow in 1993. The A.C. Plug was made before pretty much everything. Hope that helps.

Somebody has to stick up for the AC... The AC is painted with a brush while I think the MS Slammer is airbrushed...thus, the finish is different. They swim about the same...but the AC has one thing that no other hard bait has....the best looking swimming tail on the market...and that can't be copied because I think it is in his patent. I think Allan must have read your post because he put a heated reponse up on his site's forums right away =] Obviously both plugs will catch fish =]

Like I said,the actual date will be disputed.Allan is a pioneer,he always will be,but he is so bitter it's kinda sad.

Heres what he had to say on his site.

http://acplugs.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=53

As far as his tails go, they are not really unique, any shad or swimbait will work as a replacement.

Heres a response from him about that.

http://acplugs.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=42

Anyway, it's not really about his tails but his quality, I think he will step it up though. But hey, they catch fish right.

Good fishing to everyone.....

Hi Allan,

If you were selling A.C. Minnows before 1993, by all means tell us about it. I'm not being facetious. If someone else out there bought some A.C. Minnows before '93, tell me a story.

Personally, I caught my first bass on the A.C. Plug and about 150 fish on the A.C. Minnow. Good lure for sure.

I was 14 years old at the time and I didn't buy my first big baits until a year or two later so I'm no expert on the history. I do know that the Slammer came out around '93 and was under the impression that the A.C. Minnow came out a year or so later.

The real question though is, should I delete this thread now, or after it spirals into a quagmire.

Rob,

Before you delete, if you do delete this thread, please let me ask Mr. Cole a question about the lure that I bought.

Mr. Cole,

I had previously bought 2 AC Plugs from Luhr Jensen. 4 days ago I bought my very first AC Minnow at the Castaic tackle shop. I even caught my first swimbait lmb (1 or 2lb) on your Minnow. However, I was looking at it closely and saw somethings that worried me. I am no swimbait expert so your insight is much appreciated. Firstly, I noticed some cracks in the front of the bait and by the tail. I have been very careful to not bang this bait against anything solid and I always store it carefully after each use. Second, I notice that the "lip" is a little skew. Is that the reason that the minnow pulls to the left during retrieve? Here are some pictures.

http://home.adelphia.net/~sonnykim/fishing/images/7_acminnow_02.jpg http://home.adelphia.net/~sonnykim/fishing/images/7_acminnow_01.jpg

http://home.adelphia.net/~sonnykim/fishing/images/7_acminnow_03.jpg



Cordially,

Sonny

________________

Sonny

2004 - 6 Bass 2 Trout $219.20 in Gear

Sonny, if you get a personal repy about this problem I would like to know the answer also. I have 12 AC plugs that I had painted by a buddy the way I wanted them that look really good. Only threw and trolled them for a day to try em out. 4 of them are cracked all the way down the bottom like yours....Pretty bummed about it. I know theres nothing that I can do now but if theres something I can do to stop it that would be great.......Warren
P.S. Rob, no lure bashing here, both of the above mentioned baits are proven fish catchers, I personally don't have a very much $$ to spend on lures and when I do buy some I feel like I get more for my money going with the wood........

Regardless of who did what first... I went into BWW earlier this year with full intentions of buying an AC plug Hatchery trout. However after picking one up and looking at it I put it back and got a 12 inch Slammer to replace one that a fish liked so much he took it with him...

The Hatchery trout just looked like if I threw it for any amount of time that it would fall apart. Lots of glue visible where the lip was attached, the cuts looked like a kid made them, the whole construction just looked shoddy. Now that lure probably would have worked and caught fish, I'll never know, but sometimes looks are what lure in the fisherman.

This post in not a slam at Allan and his lures... just my personal opinion from just looking at one still in the package. ;-)

Erik P.

________________________________

Pretending to be a swimbait fisherman since 2001.

Like all swimming lures, whether it be a tady 45 or a wooden chuckin plug, you gotta check out the lures prior to purchasing them. No two are alike- even if they are from an injection mold! Wood is naturally inherent to absorption. Water is gonna get in somewhere when wood is involved. Buy a can of sander sealer at the hardware store and drop it in the cracks with a brush. After it drys put a little mix of rod finish on the cracks and that will do the trick.It's the prep work prior to the paint that seals the wood.

If you are making your own plugs you can either coat them with sander sealer prior to painting, or use a mixture of rod finish and denatured alcohol. This will soak the pores and keep water out, that is until you stick a grumpster, get excited and slam the plug on the deck. PRACTICE AND TEACH CATCH AND RELEASE

BURGIE

Sticken up for the AC again...

PHISHnutS
"but I personally think he has been left in the dust as far as quality and design goes"

Allan posted that he has a new painting process that will protect the plug and look better than in the past...so it sounds like he is making the effort to bring his plugs back to the forefront.

swimbait
"The MS Slammer was made before the A.C. Minnow in 1993."

This one is pretty much answered in this post http://acplugs.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=53
Looks like Allan put a patent picture up...pretty cool =]

PHISHnutS
"Allan is a pioneer,he always will be, but he is so bitter it's kinda sad."

Sounds like he is bitter...but imagine if you came up with a revolutionary plug design...had some "friends" who you sent free samples to...and they decided to go into business for themselves...it really is "kinda sad".

PHISHnutS
"As far as his tails go, they are not really unique, any shad or swimbait will work as a replacement."

It IS really unique in that the AC is the only hard bait that can have a "paddle" tail...because of the patent. I personally love the action of a "paddle" tail over the straight tails.

nemorino
"Firstly, I noticed some cracks in the front of the bait and by the tail."

I am not the expert...but I am assuming all of the large wooden plugs are prone to cracking...even MS Slammers =]

This could be the end to this post...but I doubt it =]

Well, it was a simple question. What came first, the A.C. Minnow or the MS Slammer. Sounds like Allan had an idea for a billed bait in 91. Did he sell it then? I don't know. I didn't frequent the shops that would sell baits like that in 91-93.

The bait shown in the patent picture looks a lot more like a jointed rapala than an A.C. Minnow or an MS Slammer. The bill is angled out and the head is much narrower than either bait. If that's Allan's patent, why isn't he going after Rapala? Gimme a break.

A more relavent question here might be, did Mike Shaw see the A.C. Minnow and decide it would be a good idea to rip it off? The answer to that question is quite simply no. Mike had an idea to put a bill in a trout lure, and he did it in '93.

There was no interent in '93. Communciation among guys who were making baits was very limited. Did Rod and Todd Thigpin's original wood Stocker trout which also came out in '93 come out before the Slammer or the Minnow? What about the Castaic Hardbait ? It came out in the Spring of '93 also. In 2004, is it really relevant any more? The A.C. Minnow, MS Slammer, Stocker Trout and Castaic hardbait are all different baits with different design qualities.

Lot's of fishing lures are similar. Crankbaits, spinnerbaits, plastic worms, swimbaits, trout plugs, you can go on and on. Some guys go the full knock off route. Other guys have respect for the original baits and make their baits with new and different variations. The way I see it, the MS Slammer is a variation bait, not a direct copy. Just hold an MS Slammer in one hand and an A.C. Minnow in your other hand. It'd be like holding a fat free shad and DD22. No big deal! If a guy makes a direct copy, that's lame IMO. If a guy does some new variation of a class of other baits, that's the standard thing that has happened 10,000 times over.

Allan, you've been back on the war path lately, I don't know why and I really don't care because I don't make any money in the fishing business. Why not just let it rest.

He can't let it rest... his licensing agreement is up with Luhr Jensen so he has to stir the pot again until someone comes running, wanting to build the bait under their brand.

Henry - where are you? put a pick of the bait I gave you that was given to me by Alan in 96 at Castaic. It was "one of the first minnows that he had made".

Sorry...couldn't resist.

SWMB8R

How can he rest with you all needling him on? Big plugs do the strangest things to people =]

Mark:

Here is a picture of the early AC bait.

Henry

Attachment #1, (.jpg file)

Hi Guys,
I know I'm kinda late on this debate...I don't know who's bait came out first...But I do know there is no reason you should have to buy a bait with cracks in the finish,or a diving bill placed in crooked..That is strictly a quality issue...Nathan
www.Bettencourtbaits.com