Rob,

I just read your article about the 90% of us who are out here. I'm guilty as charged. I appreciate you taking the time to write that article. I'm always trying to get better and sometimes I feel like I'm on information overload. I get to a lake and I have so many things going through my mind, that I often waste a lot of time doing things I don't want to do and fishing spots I don't want to fish. Sounds crazy, huh?

Your sight has been invaluable to me. I think I'm developing some skills as a jig fisherman because of the tips you've been able to share.

My latest challenge is fishing the fat ika's. I've rigged them backwards the way the good folks at BWW tell us... but I 'm still having trouble catching fish with them. I keep missing the fish and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. How do you or other set the hook on a fat ika? I keep pulling the bait out of the fishes mouth without getting a good hook set. It puzzles me because I keep missing fish.

I've used gammies in 4/0 and 5/0 - but it seems like I'm not pulling enough of the hook through the bait fast enough to get a hook set or something. Any tips?

I'm glad you enjoyed the article and took it the right way :)

You know, I have not tried this backwards fat ika thing but I do hear that it is working.

Tell me this, what hook exactly are you using? I found that with 7" senkos, the 5/0 superline EWG was making me miss a lot of fish because the plastic would kinda ball up on the hook. I switched to a standard 5/0 round bend offset shank gammie worm hook (bronze) and started to do a lot better on hooksets. That hook will slice right through the bait on the hookset. It means one bait per fish, but it also means you catch the fish.

That is another topic I want to talk about on the main page. Fishing "suicidally" .. meaning fishing in ways where you know your bait will be destroyed by one fish or in ways where you know you are going to lose a lot of lures. I remember the first time I fished with John Lake. The guy goes through baits like you wouldn't believe whether it's on fish or because his bait gets loose on the hook after a snag. By keeping a brand new good bait on there at all times, his odds go up considerably during the day. Sometimes fishing like that is the way to go.

The other thing would be the rod and the line. I would use at least 16lb test and a flipping stick for that kind of fishing. If you want hookset pointers, just watch the bassmasters. Those guys know how to set the hook. You want to slam them and crank them on big texas rig plastics.

I believe it's the EWG hooks that I'm using. I'll have to try the round bend. My ika's get all balled up - just like your senkos do.

Great point about the way John Lake fishes. I know I find myself trying to "save" a bait from time to time and then at a certain point, I say to myself... "what am I doing?" and then I come to my senses and I put a fresh plastic on instead. When I do that, my confidence goes way up - even though my wallet takes a hit! :o In the long run, it's worth it.

Oh dude, I still have trouble ripping off a bait and just throwing it away. I'm just too damn cheap :)

Definitely try the round bend and only thread it through about 3/8" of the bait before you poke the hook out. If you thread it too far back it will ball up. Same with the senkos. I thought it would be good at first to rig the hook an inch or two back in the bait. It gets bit good, but you farm a lot. Rigging about 3/8" back from the nose of the bait has been so much better. I don't recall missing any good sized bites after I started rigging like this.

SJ, I've had several people tell me that they can't get the hook set on Fat Ika fish, especially on the backwards rig. Now without knowing what size line, power of rod, or exact hook size you've been using, let me just give you the run down of my equipment for that bait.
First off I use a Med-Heavy action rod 6'6" or 7", and at least 12 lb. test mono or fluorocarbon. The hook is the 5/0 Gamakatsu EWG, not the SuperLine model, it is too thick of a gauge of wire to penetrate easily on the hookset. Skin hook the point of the hook on the opposite side of the bait. I don't feel a bite until the fish has the bait down pretty good. Also an important thing to remember is rod angle. When I'm in my boat I'll set the hook, bringing the rod tip upwards. When shore fishing I'll do more of a sideways sweep set of the hook. The idea is that I'm probably setting the hook on a fish that is only a few feet below my position when shore fishing, so the sideways set allows me best angle to set the hook instead of pulling the bait out of the bass' mouth. Hope some of this helps.

See this is good, now we have an interesting conversation going :)

So I think the difference in opinion on what line and hook to use stems mostly from the difference between Nor-Cal vs. So-Cal. I can only think of a handful of lakes up here where I would fish a bait like this on anything less than 16lb. It would just be pointless. Same with big senkos. But in So-Cal, you say 16lb test and people are like whoa are you flipping heavy cover :) (that was my stab and So-Cal for this post) har.

Plus, when I set the hook on a flip bait, whether it's a jig or a weightless plastic or whatever, I would snap 10lb test. 12lb would be marginal. 15 would be do-able but I still wouldn't give a full hookset. It's only when I get to 16lb test that I feel like I can give them a good strong yank. But I can see how if you're fishing San V, or Perris, or whatever other clear water weedbed lakes, you can fish 10 or 12 without much problem because you don't have any need to move the fish on the hookset. You just hook them and fight them in. It's not like you're trying to flip them and stun them by the force of the hookset so you can pull them out.

With a less forceful hookset and lighter line, I could also see why you would want to use the regular EWG. I stopped fishing that hook completely because it has too much flex on the hookset for me. You'll get fish that literally spring off the hook when you slam them with 20 or 25lb. With the superline hook , the hook penetrates because it doesn't flex.

What makes this an interesting conversation is that a guy like CJ has given thought to how he rigs for this bait and the lakes he fishes and has come up with a system by paying attention to the little details like how thick the hook is and what lb test line to use. I'm fishing different water and I've come up with my system for weightless plastic baits like this. I'd bet his setup works better where he is and mine works better where I am. So the important thing is to pay attention to all the little details of the rigging and tweak with it until you get the setup that works right where you are fishing.

This is great stuff. Kind of makes my head spin... but great, never-the-less. :-) I love learning about these little details. It really challenges me to prepare, think things through and apply that knowledge to gain more experience. I can't image how long my learning curve would be without the internet (which touches on another one of your articles, Rob).

More questions... Are bass really line shy? I know trout are - but I have often assumed that bass are not as line shy as most other fish. Does it really make a difference. I have often wondered if line visibility makes a difference. I wonder about this because I figure that the bass's lateral line is going to pick up any line movement, regardless of visibility. I know how clear the water is might play into things - and maybe that's why I like fishing dirty water more. I also thought that if I'm getting a "reaction" bite, the visibility of the line isn't going to make much difference. Am I way off base here?

No fair. Perris has a couple of rotting tree stumps in the water! LOL :D Doesn't that count as heavy cover?

Matt

If you don't release it you can't catch it.

Okay, now to be honest I'm fishing 16 lb. Sugoi Fluorocarbon on all my flyline baits. I said 12 lb. because most of us So Cals have a hard time thinking heavier then 10 lb. for most applications. You have to go to a heavier line to land bass on Senkos and Fat Ikas, some may have no problems with 10 lb. test, but if I lose one bite due to line stretch I'd be looking for heavier tackle. It is important to have a minimum of line stretch when setting the hook on a bait that is so beefy. Fluorocarbon can help limit the stretch, but starting out with a good 12 lb. test mono(like Big Game) is a very user-friendly approach for those of us that fish the angel hair 6 lb. drop shot rig so often.

O.K. this is all good info. But what about a 'general' line size? I know that there is not one right line size for all applications. But for those of us that pound the shore alot, and only carry one or two rods for multi-tasking what would you suggest?

When I'm in my tube or kick it's no problem, I cam take 4, 5 or 6 rods. But, right now, when I walk the shore, I only take 2 rods. Both are 7 ft. med/hvy. Both have Iron Silk on them. One is 10lb and the other is 14. With the 10, I can throw small finesse worms and light cranks. With the 14, I can step up to a 5" swimbait if I want to, and I use the 14 for my jigs as well.

My vote goes for 16lb. If I go tubing I usually bring two swimbait rods, one with 25 and one with 20, and then a 16lb all around rod. I just lay the two extras across the apron. But I'm a crappy example of "all around" :) :)

Florocarbon or triple fish camo is what I have been fishing lately. I have 16lb sugoi on one rod and 16lb Nitlon DFC on another rod and I dig that stuff. If I was richer, I would spool all my rods with straight floro. For my heavy rods I'm using either 25lb camo or 30lb triple fish silicon with 30lb sugoi leader.

yea i am close to rob with an all around line...15 lb big game...hasnt failed me, where as p line has screwed me 4 times so screw them too. but really i mean i can take out just a 6'6 med hvy stick wit 15 lb big game (green of course) and throw anything. 5" big hammers, jigs(castin not flippin the heavy $#!+), and yes even the ikas and senkos...and on the hooks on those i use a 3/0 reg EWG for 5" senkos and 4" EWG red for the ikas...both texposed...get prolly 75% of my bites. cranks, jerkbaits, t rigs, c rigs, hell have even thrown a 7" stocker trout on that stick when my bigger setup got stolen...only problem i had was controlling the cast because of the lighter rod...so i say 15 is a dandy all around choice..big game...wit a flourocarbon leader if the water is clear...peace out
-patrick

________________________
Assalt Lures
http://www.assalt.com
Big Hammer
http://www.swimbait.com

Catch and Release!

I read somewhere that you can cut the sencos off where they break and use them for top water fishing like a jerk bait, I have never tried it but I have a bag full of cut off sencos and plan to use them this weekend, I'll let ya know if it works.

Brad


)*))))><

I have been fishing the ika a lot at Perris this past year. I use 10 pound test and a heavy rod. I think the rod has a lot to do with the hook up and land ratio. When you get a bite just drop the rod tip reel up all the slack and give the fish all you got }( . I use 4/0 ewg gammies, and I haven’t lost a fish on the ika yet.

Matt

If you don't release it you can't catch it

Rob, CJ, Matt - Thanks for the tips. I use a 6'6" medium/heavy with 10 pound p-line. I will try stronger line in the future and make sure I'm using the right hooks. I also appreciate the tips on the hook set.

Always glad to help. I use a 7 foot rod, because it helps me pick up more line on a long hook set. Try sticking to the 10-12 pound line. You might be suprised how hard it is to break a fish off on 10 pound P-Line.

Matt

If you don't release it you can't catch it.

.....I fish a 6.5 ft.M-H rod with a Chronarch reel and 12lb. flouro. Too thick (gage)of a hook like CJ says is harder to penetrate. I bend the hook out slightly to the side and out a hair to give the point a "clear" avenue for a solid hookset. A highspeed reel is crucial for pickup as you "crankswing" on the hookset....keep reeling like a mother until you load it up all the way.....go get them....

Gerryjig out