Well the spawn is almost here and warmer water and more active and shallow fish is what we are looking forward to. Every year I go out and fish during the spawn and am blown away by the empty nests so early on. Please try to keep in mind that this spawn is what allows our sport or recreational activity to maintain itself. I know that it is the easiest time to get a big fish and up your PB and I would love to see that happen for you. The biggest and heaviest fish are the females that are egg laden and are also our most precious resource to the spawn. Know I am all about putting a kid on a fish and might be persuaded to put a kid on a bed fish myself. Most of us are not kids and should be able to see how fishing the beds is detrimental to a fishery. It seems that every year people go out and look for the biggest bed fish they can find and pull it off the nest, hopefully to be released right back to the nest but that is not always the case. Personally I dont bed fish at all as for me it is immoral. I sure wish that bed fishing would be outright outlawed. I am sure we all realize how powerful the dollar can be and in a tournament situation I think the fish look more like dollar bills or at least equate to that. I think the real damage is done in the tournaments during the spawn. The biggest fish that can be found are pulled off their nests and go the the scales. Sometimes they are handled in a rough fashion by someone who wants to get some cheers from the crowd, you know it is true I have never seen it not happen at a tournament weigh in. These fish are jerked up in to the air for everyone to see and as emotins run high the fish's well being is neglected. These fish are not released back to where they came from and possibly might not spawn at all. I am not trying to upset anyone and I know that the tournament fishermen have bills to pay and mouths to feed too. That is why personally I would like to see it be outlawed. I do not think it will happen but then there would be a level playing field for the tournament guys when the pressure is on. The tournaments almost always happen on the week ends and monday I see way to many vacant nests early on in the spawn. I have observed this since 99 so I am pretty confident about my observations. It is just such a shame to see how Casitas has declined as a trophy bass fishery, I have talked to plenty of old timers and lake personell that agree that the fish on average used to be bigger. I hear stories of catching 14>15 lbers all day long back in the day. The biggest fish in the lake are a precious genetic resource to maintain the gene pool for a trophy bass lake. Yes age and eating habits do also enter in to the equation here but if you study why big fish get big one thing you will notice is that genetics is a major part of it. Please try to respect the beds for what they really are, nests not bulls eyes. I believe that everyone has the right to their own opinion and if you disagree with my opinon I am not going to disrespect you for it. Be free brothers that is what this country is supposed to be about lets just remember how many of us might also want to cacth that fish of a life time and what we can do to help insure the propagation of the species we are chasing for fun or profit. Is bed fishing really sporting? I know sometimes bed fish are hard to catch, but when you are in shallow water and can bounce your lure on the fish's nose or her eggs in her nest doesnt that hurt those eggs and the spawn as well? Personally I get more enjoyment by not knowing when I am going to get bit. Bed fishing reminds me of breaking in to someones car at work who locked their keys in and the motor on. Bottom line I am getting in and it aint going to take me very long to do it either. I respect everyones freewill and am only trying to appeal to your sense of intellect in passing on and if possible improving the great sport of fishing to future generations. There is just way to much of the IGM attitude for me sometimes, shoot I became a fireman to get away from people with that attitude but it is there too. The best time of year is almost here and I wish you all the best spring yet. I hope I am not opening a huge can of worms. Honestly the only other person I have talked to that will not bed fish is Rod Thigpin who by the way will not flip a bass in to the boat either. When I found that out my respect for him increased fivefold. Rod and his customers consistently catch big bass out of Casitas and he is a great custodion of those resources. He has been fishing for a lot longer than me and I like to think he does what he does for the protection of the sport we all love so much. Please share your thoughts and comments with me. I decided to post this while thinkig of getting some anti bed fishing bumper stickers made but thought maybe I would solicit the opinions of some friends before I got my truck windows busted out
Peace
Rich

First of all paragraphs man... paragraphs...

http://www.calfishing.com/dc/user_files/4547-Beatingadeadhorse.gif
http://www.calfishing.com/dc/user_files/4548-Beat_Dead_Horse.jpg

________________________________

Pretending to be a swimbait fisherman since 2001.

Yeah I forgot the paragraphs, sorry about that. I take it you think I am beating a dead horse. Do you feel there is no hope? I have never seen this a topic of conversation before.
Rich

This topic get brought up at least once a year usually around the spawn. Someone writes why they think bed fishing is detrimental to a fishery and should be outlawed. From my limited memory not a one has come with scientific evidence to back up their claims. It is all theory and speculation for the most part.

Empty bed doesn't mean that the fish were all caught. It just means the beds were abandoned for one reason or another.

I really don't have an opinion one way or another on the bed fishing issue. If you want to bed fish do it... if you don't then don't. I do know that if I see a huge bass on a bed I am going to try my hardest to get it in for a picture session. Then I will release it.

We could be like some northeastern states where you aren't allowed to fish for bass until june or something. That would eliminate people bed fishing.

________________________________

Pretending to be a swimbait fisherman since 2001.

Thanks I appreciate your perspective. I really do not care for us to lose any of our freedoms, I think we have lost to much already. I merely was hoping to get the different perspectives of those on this site and bring the issue to light as we enter the spawn so we can consider the consequences. Although my feelings on bed fishing have been made clear I am not going to think different or negatively about anyone that feels and acts otherwise
Peace
Rich

offduty:
I have been bass fishing for over 25 years. A good part of that was spent every spring sight fishing. There is just something about going down the bank and finding a fish and getting him or her to bite and being able to watch the whole thing happen. When my oldest daughter was 6 she fished her first tournament, a local team. At 6 she was already a pretty good fisherman. We were sight fishing when she spots a good fish and casts to it. She caught that fish, 6.11 lbs. We won that tournament and she had big fish of the tournament. She released her fish and used her " Big Fish " money to buy a reprodution mount. That was 10 years ago and I'm still proud as hell of her.

I think that there is many things that are damaging to the fish population. I'm not sure what the impact is of "bed fishing" but I will agree there is one.

I think tournaments themselves have a huge impact on the fish.I hate when I see guys rough handle thier fish "Iaconelli Style" at weigh-ins. I cannot tell you how many times I have been out on the Delta after one of the major tournaments has rolled through town to find a bunch of dead floaters. I'm talking a lot of fish. Last year I found 4 fish over 8 lbs. dead within a twenty yard stretch. A little ways down the bank I see one that looks to be over 11 lbs.

Bouncing fish into the boat I feel is really hard on the fish. I love the "Big Bait Posse" video but you see fish after fish being bounced into the boat and flop around on the carpet. Having a net in the boat can be a pain sometimes but I do not think anything good can come from bouncing a big fish onto the carpet.

Recently I read an article that one of our western pro's had wrote. He went on about how he hates the "bed fisherman" and thinks it's immoral. A few paragraphs later he goes into one of his favorite times of the year to fish. Post-spawn. "Fish guarding fry are the easiest to catch" he states. In my opinion this is just as bad as bed fishing. You pull the male off the fry he is guarding what happens to the fry? Other fish move in and eat them!

As far as Casitas declining as a trophy bass fishery it's my opinion that this is do more to the ever increasing fishing presure for trophy fish, not just the bed fisherman. You have so many fisherman just targeting big fish these days, myself included

I totally respect your opinion and what you are trying to do, insure the future generations of these fish we all love to chase. I hardly ever bed fish these days but if I do see a really big girl sittin up shallow, I just might try to catch her.

GGR Thanks for the post, I really respect your honest opinon. Casitas has been closed to outside boats for 1 year to protect from quagga infestation. I think that will be pretty benefecial to the spawn this year. Hopefully it will open up on the 5th of march next year or sooner. Again thanks for your perspective.
Rich

I'm glad this was brought up as it should be every spawn. I've been bass fishing for over 20 years and have seen my share of beds. In my earlier days I'd spend hours on beds unaware of any side effects and would fish and marvel at just being able to see a big fish. Over time I would always wonder why I'd see so many big fish in the spring and later be lucky to catch a few. That's when I started to realize what I was doing wasn't really part of MY belief . I read a few books,talked to local tackle stores,and conversed at club meetings. The one thing that stood out to me was that bed fishing was a bad way of preserving a habitat that is rarely stocked. Long time fishermen and biologists have said "you ever catch a bass and have it throw up? ya that's from stress" or "bass fishermen are one of the few groups of fisherman that intentionally target their spawning grounds" and "Tournament anglers hammer these beds then take the females laden with eggs to weigh-in yes those fish do abort!"

My thoughts are smaller lakes and reservoirs need to close off certain major spawn areas AND enforce them. Big lakes that hold tournaments should do the same and really need to devise a system for certifying a big fish that is caught with eggs out in the field (digital pic of fish on scale w/boat slip?) like I've heard before it comes down to ethics and good sportsmenship.

one interesting question is... how would you all feel if the world record was caught on a bed?

offduty:
Yes, I was aware of the closure at Casitas. I feel for you, what a bunch of B.S. I saw in one of your other posts you mentioned donating $100.00 per month. Was this to help with an attorney?. I was down at Casitas a few weeks back and was in at Eric's Tackle. He was talking about how they were in the makes of getting an attorney. I asked how I could help with this? If I could make a donation to help with attorney fees. He said it was already taking care of, not to worry. If you know something different let me know, check will be in the mail Monday. I take a trip every year down to Casitas for one week, sometimes I'm able to sneek a few other trips in, but I'm willing to fight for those days. Up until this nightmare at Casitas all started I was seriously looking into moving to the area.


deepsessions:
You asked the question : How would you all feel if the world record was caught on a bed?

The chance of this happening is pretty darn good. Look at the whole crew down in San Diego. This is what they do every spring, hunt the shallows for the next world record. Every bass on the top 25 list was caught durring the months of the spawn. Myself, I really do not care if the next world record comes off a bed. I have thought for years that this was the way it was going to be done.

I have read some articles by biologists who claim that a released fish will still be able to spawn. I would like to hope this is true. If you look at a lot of the bass magazines this time of year they always have articles about targetting bed fish. I really hope we are not hurting these fish more then we know.


I really like your idea about closing off an area of the lake for spawning fish. I know there is some lakes that already do this but I think every lake should adopt this program.

The one great thing here is that we all share a common concern about the future of the fish. I think Carrot Top made a great point: If you want to bed fish do it....if you don't then don't.

My understanding is Duclos' fish wasn't a bed fish however I could be wrong. I've heard the rumors about guys running around on walkie talkie's and cell phones cornering off people that stand a chance at a shot. This to me isn't fishing and seems like a joke. It's kind of like driving around with a spot light and a rifle hanging out the window. Why not take responsibility and put an emphasis on leaving these fish alone? I don't see the challenge in bed fishing. Sure you piss a fish off enough it's gonna bite it doesn't have hands to push a bait off it's bed or smack someone upside the head.

I realize there hasn't been a ton of definitive research done on largemouth during the spawn and how being caught effects them. I've heard alot of conflicting opinions over the years. Most experts agree though females go through alot of stress during the spawn and some at older ages can often die afterwards. On another note I wonder about how much fishermen educate these bigger fish by bed fishing?

I suppose the optimist in me would like to still think it's possible to catch a big fish or maybe it's the fishermen.

ive been fishing for 33 years and while i no longer live in california and in alabama i myself will target bedfish during a tournament. however i try to handle any and all fish with care simply out of respect for a magnificant creature.
while im sure many guys are right in their arguements on bedding fish there are always pros,and cons in any bedding fishing situation.

MegaStrike professional Bass Fishing Team

Well now, I have been fishing for 235 years now and I think that If I were a male on a bed and got caught, I would get to do it again now LOL!!! All in fun.

We only see a small percent of the fish that spawn right? Who is to say this time of year that when you catch one it did not come off a bed? After all they do spawn in 20+ feet of water. Fishing is fishing, Bed fishing is Bed fishing. Fishing has been much better through the years, so I have to say that C&R is working. I catch fish many deferent sizes so I know there are plenty of up and coming fish for the future. I am not all up on tourneys so I can care less if they went away (add money = Rude fisherman). I just love fishing.
So far so good.

Don.

http://calfishing.com/gallery/v/members/bassindon69/basspics/

Nothing like fishing!

Don
I really relate to your perspective I did not realize you were that old you must really know how to fish. In regards to a record fish coming off a bed to me I would not be impressed at all. I can go to the hardware store and pick the biggest hammer off the wall or cruise the shallows and look for the biggest bed fish. I am all for freedom and would like to see all our freedoms preserved as much as possible. I think a fish that is returned straight to the bed will fair better than one that rides in the livewell for hours and then goes to the scales to be realeased who knows how far from the nest. They seem to be very territorial to the nest so I think that must really stress them out.

As far as Casitas goes I am very optimistic that a tag and leash system will be implemented. I know that would not be ideal for everyone, especially tournament guys but it is a step in the right direction. There are many pros and cons, it may be great for locals and take pressure off the lake but will be tough on the semi pros and pros. Hopefully as things evolve the tournament circuits can evolve along the path of the Clean Lakes Coalition.

Change is almost always resisted, that is what my life experience has shown me. Hopefully we are seeing the beginning of The Coalition of Clean Lakes and things will get much better. Cachuma is staying open and I was impressed by what they have done in such a short time. I know it is unfortunate for some but at least it is not a total closure. I hear opinions from guys in the inland empire that it might as well be closed. At least they can still fish their local lakes. I heard an opinion from a board member that he would have really thought the tournament community was helping out if the tournament directors had not had tournaments going from an infected lake to an unaffected lake. I know some of these things need to be planned well in advance but it did not look very cooperative to them.
I have to admit I had that thought long before he expressed it.

Hopefully Casitas will be open to a tag system in the near future. The whole thing got me thinking and I've decided to try to find a 50' boat at a gov auction and turn it in to a commercial fishing boat and a live a board. I could live on it in the marina and fish the salt and enjoy some write offs too. I could keep my boat and big truck in Oak View and just come up to Casitas when I want too fish the fresh.

Out of all my frustration about Casitas I came up with a great Idea to save money and turn a hobby into a money saver and maker. I have wanted to build a boat since before I could drive. I guess I will be able to do a 50' fishing boat on the ranch. I talked to my land lady and was not going to go there, but she went there and said go for it.

As far as donating money for an attorney I have it from a great source that the biggest and most popular of fishing companies will be backing that. my source said he was looking for tens of thousands not hundreds so keep your money.

Peace

Rich

Im gonna play the devils advocate here.

There has been tons of research that looked at the effects of recreational fishing during the spawn to the recruitment (nest success) of bass populations. Tournament fishing has garnered particular attention. A wealth of scientific literature exists showing no effects. Anybody can find this literature if they want to. With that said, many states ban fishing for bass during the spawn. CA obviously isnt one of them.

As far as seeing abandoned nests. How do you know they are abandoned? My observations through the years is that many lakes that get tons of pressure during the spawn causes the bass to spawn at night. Ive seen this many times. I fish during the day and see empty nests, then when its dark I run with a spotlight. Those empty nests will have bass in them at night, and Ive observed lots of them spawning at night (you know, rolling on there sides and that whole thing).

And like Don pointed out, we can only see a small percentage of bass nests, so logical thinking says we may only be affecting that small percentage that we can see. When you factor in the survival rate of bass fry per nest (small), its easy to come to the conclusion of no effect.

Just a different perspective.

PS: I had no idea Don was that old, no wonder he has poopy pants all the time.

LOL!!!!!

Fishing keeps me young. Want proof? Watch any Butch tape.:-)

Don.

http://calfishing.com/gallery/v/members/bassindon69/basspics/

Nothing like fishing!